“I'm feeling weirdly nostalgic.” Greg commented as he absorbed the ability energy from his latest kill, the chief of a tribe of gremlin like creatures.
“This makes you nostalgic?” Andrew asked skeptically, gesturing at the grisly scene surrounding them, the ground covered in mutilated bodies.
“Not really the results… more the process, you know?” Greg replied. “Going around, finding tribes, seeing if they have any redeeming qualities, and if not, destroying them with extreme prejudice.” Greg chuckled. “Makes me feel like I'm back on Earth, just taking care of assholes. A simpler time before my life became about aliens, politics, and demonic gods.”
“Pretty sure the demonic gods thing is your fault.” Andrew grumbled, before letting out a sigh. “But yeah, I can kinda see that. The simplicity of going around killing things and absorbing their power, for no other reason than to grow… I kinda miss it. Not quite sure what it says about us that we find killing nostalgic, though.”
“That you come from violent and fucked up Worlds?” Victoria offered, rolling her eyes. “Neither of my Worlds involved much killing.”
“Didn't your hunting get a Beast Tide sent at us?” Greg replied, raising an eyebrow.
Victoria coughed awkwardly. “I said they didn't involve much killing…”
Greg snorted, shaking his head. “I have to say, the tribes in the Maze are a bit… overly heinous, aren't they? Like, how can all these creatures be so irredeemably awful?”
Chris cocked his head. “I'm not sure if I'd say irredeemably… quite a few of my subordinates were pretty bad before I connected them to my world. The kobolds sacrificed one of their own whenever life went even a little bad and goblins pretty much have a rape culture, but ever since they joined my world, they've been better. Not that the kobolds could sacrifice each other anymore… but still.”
Greg frowned. “So you think we should capture all these tribes instead of killing them?”
Chris raised an eyebrow at him. “No? Just because people can be better doesn't mean I'm obligated to make them better. The fact that we're taking the time to offer them the option of joining my world is already enough.”
Greg grimaced. “That seems… off to me. If you can give people the means to be better, then shouldn't you do so? Especially if the other option is killing them… sure, they're bad, but shouldn't everyone have the chance to be better?”
Andrew gave Greg an incredulous look. “You're advocating for not killing things? Really?”
“Hey, I like giving people the chance to be better!” Greg retorted. “Sometimes people just need some support to turn their lives around. For someone to show them there's a better way.”
Andrew blinked at him. “Huh…”
“Still, just because my support could help someone, it doesn't mean I'm obligated to give it to them.” Chris commented. “Besides, it isn't like they're just being a little shitty. If you can't figure out that torture and rape are wrong on your own, then maybe you don't deserve help.”
Greg's expression twisted. “Maybe… I don't know. If they weren't primitive tribes, I'd be more on board, but… I guess I have a weak spot for the ignorant. I've been awful too many times simply because I didn't know any better.”
Chris shrugged. “Then you can see about making them better.”
Greg cocked his head. “Maybe I will. Wouldn't be the first time I've had to teach someone about empathy.”
“Are you really the best person to be teaching empathy? Considering?” Andrew commented skeptically.
“I have plenty of empathy.” Greg waved dismissively. “What I lack is sympathy. Like, I can see you're suffering, it just doesn't bother me. If anything it amuses me.”
Andrew just stared at him for a moment. “I'm waiting for you to get to the point where you think you should be teaching anyone to be better.”
“Well, empathy is getting to the point where you understand how your actions affect others. The ability to put yourself in their shoes, so to speak. Once you understand that, if you still choose to hurt people, well…” Greg chuckled, rubbing his hands together. “Let's just say I find what comes after very amusing.”
Andrew let out a relieved sigh. “Okay, there's the Greg I know. I was worried for a second.”
“Also, I'm fairly certain these things are fully cognizant that their actions hurt others.” Victoria commented, nudging one of the bodies with her foot. “I've been in their heads. They enjoy the fact they're causing pain.”
Greg frowned. “Huh… then that brings me back to my original question. Why are all the creatures in the Maze so irredeemably horrible?”
“The nice ones don't survive?” Chris offered. “Or they get taken in by stronger races, like the Halflings and the Elves. Or they hide in an underground city.”
“That's a theory, I suppose.” Greg muttered. “Or it could just be that the World doesn't want people getting hung up over mindlessly slaughtering hordes of Maze creatures, so there's some sort of rule that makes sure nothing good lives in the Maze?”
“Could be both.” Victoria shrugged.
“Could that be why the ones in Chris's world suddenly get better?” Andrew asked. “They get better once they're freed from the influence of the World?”
Chris frowned. “I'm not sure the influence of the World can actually affect someone like that. Pushing and prodding maybe, but I don't think it can force people to be evil. Just… more inclined, maybe?”
“And then being connected to your world would make them more inclined to be good, right?” Andrew countered. “Let's say everyone is basically neutral, equally inclined to being both evil and good. If the World pushes them towards evil, then they'll be evil, if you push them to be good, then they'll be good.”
“But then they aren't truly good or evil at all, are they? They're just products of whatever environment they're in.” Victoria commented.
“Convictionless.” Chris cocked his head thoughtfully. “If you have no real desire to be one way or another, then the World, or any other form of influence, can push you to be whatever way it wants. The question becomes, is it wrong to be convictionless?”
“If you can truly understand the suffering you cause and come away convictionless, then yes, it absolutely is wrong.” Greg replied.
Andrew glanced at him before shaking his head. “Dude, you are freaking me out today.”
Greg rolled his eyes. “What ever gave you the impression I was some kind of amoral monster?”
“The sheer joy you feel when slaughtering things, maybe?” Andrew retorted blandly.
“I have issues, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm amoral! It just means it takes me slightly more willpower to resist taking certain actions. If anything that makes me more moral. Can you really be commended for not killing someone you never wanted to kill in the first place?” Greg countered.
“Guys, focus!” Victoria snapped. “I'm seriously wondering if we need to alter our Maze strategy here! If all these creatures are only fucked up because the World wants them to be fucked up, then should we really be killing them?”
“They are still fucked up.” Chris pointed out. “That's legitimately still a thing.”
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“Yes, but it isn't their fault they're fucked up.” Victoria growled. “If a system doesn't support people being better, how can you blame people for failing to be better?”
“Because they are people.” Chris replied. “The fundamental facet of being a sapient being is the ability to examine your actions and determine if they are good or bad. The ability to defy the factors that influence your actions and choose your own path. No force can take that away from you, and if you fail to do so, then you have failed as a person. Every single one of these creatures has the ability to choose to be better. They didn't. Instead they chose to conform to their circumstances. Is that understandable? Of course. But is it acceptable? Absolutely not. You can cite ignorance or negative pressures, but ultimately they had every opportunity to examine what they were doing and change, and they didn't. That's on them.”
“Oof, that's a pretty harsh outlook, dude.” Greg commented. “You're essentially asking people to be perfect.”
Chris shook his head. “I'm perfectly willing to accept that people make mistakes. It's a thing. I've made mistakes and so have all of you. However, you don't get to justify those mistakes and wave them away using your circumstances. Particularly not if you make the same mistake over and over. Own the consequences of your actions, remember? Being inclined to make a mistake doesn't give you the right to ignore the consequences of making that mistake.”
“But if the World is pushing these creatures into it…” Victoria began before trailing off.
“I could give it to them if they made one or two mistakes. I'd still give them a smack, but hey, we all stumble every now and then. But if you're doing the same shit over and over again without thinking, then you're the problem.” Chris shrugged.
“I can respect that, but I still think there's something to be said for giving people who are messed up due to circumstances a chance to be better.” Greg commented. “Like yes, you're awful but you don't have to be awful, you know? Isn't it better to replace a bad person with a good person than to simply get rid of the bad person?”
“If there's someone willing to put in the effort, sure.” Chris agreed. “But no one owes anyone anything. Giving someone a chance to be better is a mercy, not a right, and I'm not willing to extend that mercy to every creature in the Maze.”
Andrew frowned. “Isn't that just… lazy?”
“A bit.” Chris nodded. “But I also have limited resources, and my current subordinates are already making a sizable dent in the population of the Maze. If I take on too many more, I'll upset the entire balance, and the City will suffer.”
“Okay… so we're not helping these creatures, because while circumstances do incline them to be evil, it doesn't force them to be evil, and as sapient beings they should have the wherewithal to be better, even though we probably could help them be better, because we don't have the resources to support helping them all.” Victoria muttered, rubbing her temple. “Am I getting this right?”
“Essentially.” Chris shrugged.
“Couldn't we just toss them into your world and leave them?” Andrew offered. “You wouldn't need to expend resources on them, but you'd still give them a chance to be better.”
Chris cocked his head. “I suppose that's an option if we're going to kill them anyway… though that does mean we'd have to give up any ability energy we'd gain from them, and that's pretty much the whole reason we're doing this. Unless they end up connecting to my world, which would let me take their ability energy for my subordinates, but I'm not wasting the mental energy to force that on them. But I can't do that for all the Maze creatures, or again, it'd ruin the balance of the Maze. Removing too many creatures, no matter how you do it, is going to be a problem. And since any creature we take in would mean we would need to hunt even more creatures to supplement our ability energy needs, maybe it isn't that great an idea.”
Andrew's expression twisted and he let out a sigh. “I'm not getting this. I mean, I see your logic, it's just rubbing me the wrong way. If we're capable of taking these creatures and making them better, why are we not? I mean, we figured out a way with the monstrous race in System World, so why can't we do something here? We're just resorting to killing them because what, it's inconvenient not to?”
“The monstrous races had legitimate reasons for their actions. They weren't being cruel simply because it was convenient for them and in fact took steps to not be cruel when possible. At least the ones we dealt with did.” Chris pointed out. “The creatures here don't have to be cruel to anyone. Sure, life is tough in the Maze, but that doesn't mean they have to torture and rape people. They chose to do that. Maybe that choice is influenced by the World or their nature, but inevitably it is their choice, so why should we help them?”
“Because in a different environment, maybe they wouldn't be awful.” Andrew shook his head.
“That's true for anyone, isn't it?” Chris retorted. “With the perfect influences, anyone would be a good person. Probably. I can't say that definitively, but at least most people would. But being a good person isn't about being guided to it by special circumstances. It's about being good even when it would be convenient not to be. Like Greg said earlier, can you really be commended for not killing someone if you never wanted to in the first place? I understand that these creatures have certain inclinations, and that sucks, but it isn't having the inclination that's the problem, it's giving into it, which they did.”
“So can you say any of your subordinates are really good?” Andrew asked.
Chris shrugged. “Probably not, but they aren't a problem anymore, because I put them in the right circumstances to be good. That doesn't make them truly good, but good enough, for now.” He paused. “Dyrdek might be good… and Jello. Maybe T'ka. But it doesn't really matter, does it? I've already established I can't do that for everyone. None of us can. The best we can do is remove the problem.”
“I think I'm okay with this, as long as we establish that the creatures aren't ignorant.” Greg commented. “If they can't conceptualize that their actions cause pain, then we can't really blame them for it, now can we?”
“If they can't conceptualize that their actions cause pain, then are they really sapient?” Victoria sighed.
“Maybe they're just really, really dumb?” Greg offered. “Wouldn't be the first time I've dealt with something like that.”
“So what, should we give them an IQ test before we kill them?” Victoria snorted.
“I was thinking you could take a dip in their minds and make sure they actually understand what they're doing.” Greg shrugged.
“So… What I've been doing?” Victoria raised an eyebrow.
Greg paused. “Yeah, pretty much.”
“So the end result of all this is that we're just going to keep doing what we've been doing?” Andrew asked, shaking his head. “We have way too many pointless conversations.”
“Hey, it wasn't pointless. We're taking the time to examine what we're doing to make sure it's actually good for us to do.” Victoria protested. “If we just assume what we're doing is okay, then we're no better than the Maze creatures, are we? Particularly when what we're doing involves destroying entire tribes.”
“Yeah, but now that we have had the conversation, I'm feeling all conflicted over killing these things.” Andrew grimaced. “I feel like the only reason we're killing these things is because we want power, and that seems like a really selfish reason to kill people. I mean, if the creatures in the Maze are a problem, shouldn't we be killing all of them?”
The other three paused. “Huh…” Chris grunted. “Well shit, he has a point.”
“He does.” Greg nodded.
“The thing is, the Maze creatures are only a problem for each other, so there's no real reason to take care of all of them.” Chris sighed. “It isn't like they're threatening the City. They're just… assholes being assholes to each other. Also, again, killing them all would make the Maze too wild.”
“So… we aren't killing them anymore?” Andrew asked tentatively.
“No. You ruined it. Now all I can think is that it's selfish.” Chris shook his head. “I still stand by my previous arguments. The Maze creatures are assholes. But until they become a legitimate problem, then the only reason to kill them would be for selfish reasons, and that's wrong. The Maze creatures being assholes doesn't give us a right to be assholes. Otherwise none of the Maze creatures would actually be assholes, because they're all just being assholes to each other.”
“See? This is why we talk.” Victoria smiled, before pausing. “Though now I'm feeling bad because we already killed a lot of creatures…”
Chris waved dismissively. “Most of that was to clear paths for my subordinates. Expanding our influence through the Maze will help us keep it under control and defend against any incursions. That's a necessity, not simply a power grab.” He glanced around. “This was wrong though. We shouldn't do this again.”
Andrew scratched his head. “Should we do penance or something?”
“What good would that do?” Chris frowned. “We made a mistake, that was bad, but our suffering won't change that. All we can do is do better next time.”
“Then how do you justify punishing the Maze creatures!?!” Andrew threw up his hands in frustration.
“Because they're continuing to do bad things? We're trying to be better, they aren't?” Chris offered.
“How do you know they aren't trying to be better?!?” Andrew retorted.
“Because they're doing things that are obviously bad?” Chris raised an eyebrow at him.
“What, like destroying an entire tribe?” Andrew rolled his eyes.
“No, like torture and rape.” Chris frowned. “If they were just eradicating other tribes, I wouldn't particularly have an issue with them. Fighting for resources is a fact of life in the Maze.”
Andrew blinked. “Fuck it, I'm done.”
Victoria shook her head. “Right, so we're not destroying tribes anymore, right?”
“Unless they're in the way.” Chris agreed. “We still need to expand our control over the Maze.”
“As long as we make sure they understand what they're doing.” Greg added.
“Sure.” Chris nodded. “And we'll give them the option to move into my world as well. But we aren't forcing it on them.”
“Works for me.” Andrew sighed, before glancing at Greg. “I've lost my nostalgia.”
“Really?” Greg cocked his head. “I think mine got stronger.”